Would it still be relaxing or fun?

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Permalink Reply by Sharon on May 18, 2009 at 4:34am

Interesting and thought provoking. My mom who lives with me grew up in a household where if you didn't grow it, you likely didn't have it. Though I am working toward providing more of our food from our property, I do know that it currently is available at the store at a price I can afford. Good years and bad years are a fact of gardening/farming. I remember some of my grandfather's stories about the bad years. That's why food preservation is as important as gardening, even though it isn't quite as relaxing or fun. Not sure I actually associate gardening with fun, though it is relaxing. It connects me to nature and life, allows me to be responsible for my impact while here, is an active form of meditation, a wonderful feeling of achievement (when it comes out right). I would probably still experience all of those feelings if I was bound to surviving on what I grew, but it would be more stressful.

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Permalink Reply by Joy Williams on May 19, 2009 at 5:13am

exactly!

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Permalink Reply by John Walker on May 18, 2009 at 9:36am

Define fun?
Is it hard work yes, but so is working out in the gym.
Do you get dirty? Yes, but you appreciate that shower or soak in the tub.
Is it relaxing? define how to relax? When I'm watering or weeding., in the right state its relaxing. In the wrong mental state its a chore.
Is it frustrating? yes, but so is watching Wrexham lose again...........
Is it worthwhile? Hell yes. I can't tell you how much connection I have with my neighbours with growing food.
as I said fun? Define fun.
pax
John

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Permalink Reply by chris w on May 19, 2009 at 1:04am

I'm not positive I understand your comments but two things did jump out at me. "in the wrong mental state it is a chore" and "connection I have with my neighbours". So these are two points that I hadn't thought of: a lot of this is a person's mentality, so even if my family were truly dependent upon the food that I produced if I had a positive state of mind it would not be overly stressful.

Makes me think that sometimes we don't know what we have until we've lost it. Years ago people were more connected to each other -now we have cars, tv's, etc. We lost some of our connectivity to our community and to the earth when all this convenience came about. I'm not arguing against convenience - just thinking about what is 'fun'...... and still thinking about it..... gonna think on this awhile, too.

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Permalink Reply by John Walker on May 20, 2009 at 6:59am

I think you got the gist of it chris....
BTW Wrexham is my football team that got relegated from the league after 87 years and didn't make it back in this year. At least Man United won the premiership.....
pax
John

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Permalink Reply by Michelle W. Flannery on May 18, 2009 at 10:53am

Unless we've missioned in third world nations and witnessed starvation and malnutrition as everyday occurrences, and shared that experience while we were there, none of us in developed nations can ever know how devastating the loss of crops can be, for an individual, a family, or even a community. In the USA, communities are not dependent on shared crops for their survival; but don't let your own affluence fool you into believing that there are not American families dependent on the food they grow for survival. Though it may not mean life and death, to many, the success or failure of a harvest can tip the balance for or against the financial survival of a family.

Not everyone in the USA has an income significant enough to provide for all their needs and the non-essential items "disposable incomes" can provide. Most Americans don't want to know that there are significant numbers of families trying to survive on a minimum-wage income, that the elderly are spending the majority of their fixed incomes on prescription medications, and that tens-of-thousands of children (if not more) still go to bed hungry at night. Their plight isn't about a lack of education. It isn't about the cost of drugs, alcohol and other addictive substances stealing away the money. Those things exist, affecting a smaller percentage of families than you think, nationwide. Their plight is the result of a nation focused on two-income, upwardly mobile, success-oriented families.

In America, there have always been those who do well financially,and those who do not, and the rest, who bounce around in the middle. American society, and thus, the American economy caters to those who live on the upper and middle upper end of financial independence. Those Americans who fall in the lower income levels are overlooked, considered inconsequential, and are, for the most part, forgotten about until political elections roll around.

The real ignorance is that of the mid to upper-level income Americans who don't seem able to recognize that there is still true poverty, hunger, and financial hardship in this great nation.

I have a college degree, and I have worked since I was 14 years old. I worked for CEOs, but my income was never even decent enough to provide for me an apartment and a modest lifestyle. Because I'm a woman? Because I live in the south? Because I did something wrong or my choices were limited? I could spend the rest of my life speculating, but the reasons are irrelevant. I now live on a fixed income below poverty level. My stress level has been through the roof the last few years, and my health has declined significantly because of financial difficulties, and our current economy isn't making it any easier. Mr. Obama is going to tax me right out of my home in a couple of years, without ever knowing who I am.

I struggle to find the money to buy the plants, seeds and gardening materials I need to grow my own food. I agonize when one plant dies because that is a significant loss to the non-cash side of my income. I don't have a grocery budget. If I buy groceries, I have to take the money away from bill-paying to do so. I have been stopped dead in my tracks numerous times in recent years because of a lack of finances. This year, I took out a significant loan to try to improve my circumstances. If I fail, I will lose everything.

So I garden because I have to feed my family. I also garden because I love it, in spite of physical handicaps to the effort, and I garden because in it I have the hope of something better, something miraculous in my life, growing and producing, showing me that there is something better on the other side of this hardship I am living. And yes, while I'm in my garden, it is relaxing.

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Permalink Reply by Kristin W. on May 18, 2009 at 8:18pm

"The real ignorance is that of the mid to upper-level income Americans who don't seem able to recognize that there is still true poverty, hunger, and financial hardship in this great nation."

So if we were all struggling financially, things would be better? I think some care is needed in making generalizations about any group, even people who have (gasp!) money. I take offense to being called ignorant of the social issues facing people in this country, simply because my hard work, education, and life circumstances have resulted in me being reasonably comfortable financially. It doesn't remove me from the reality of other people's struggles. Because my husband and I can live on the income from his job, it leaves me free to raise our children, and to VOLUNTEER my time helping in my community, something I could not do much of if I had to work full time in order to get my children fed and clothed. So, my success does not hinder, but helps my community. For my part time job I write grants (that are used to provide food for hungry people), at a rate well below market value for that work. Couldn't do that if I needed the money, either. I think I have a pretty clear understanding of the issue of hunger in this country. Do I walk in your shoes? No, but it doesn't mean I can't imagine myself in them. It doesn't make me oblivious, and it doesn't mean I don't care.

People who are doing well financially are not to blame for the plight of people who aren't. We are all responsible for our own lives. I am not obligated in any way (other than the taxes I pay) to help anyone else, but because I was raised right -with no money, by the way- I have the desire to help others where I can. My parents struggled financially, but I was lucky that they taught me about the importance of education, hard work, and being a resposible, dependable person. So it's my good parents' fault, too, that I've the affliction of success? Please don't put me in a box because my life has worked out well so far.

On the question at hand, for me gardening would not be enjoyable if I was dependent on it to eat. I would be constantly worried about the outcome of my work, rather than being able to go out at my leisure and "play" in the garden. If I lose all of my tomato seedlings (and they aren't looking so hot), I can go buy some at the greenhouse, or give up altogether and buy my tomatoes at the market price. It's an entirely different context for gardening from the family that gardens in order to eat. In fact, I'd argue that it's an entirely different activity. It's Recreation v. Occupation.

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Permalink Reply by Angie Knost on May 18, 2009 at 9:27pm

While I do believe that certain aspects of gardening are relaxing and/or fun, I do it because I want to. I enjoy the "work" aspect of it and I enjoy the "benefits" of it--food on my table & toned arms!
Considering how few actual farmers there are left these days--no, I don't mean industrial farmers or CAFO's, I mean REAL farmers--I grow food because I want to know the source. I don't want to buy produce that's been shipped across the country or even worse, from another country. Recent events have indicated just how fragile our food economy is. When you grow your own or have access to a local resource of farm fresh food, you can have control over what you eat and where it comes from.
It's true, in these grim economic times, that more people are returning to simpler lives. Victory gardens are sprouting up everywhere! and that's a good thing! But if my family was TRULY dependent on my abilities to grow what we needed to survive, I would not be experimenting. I would seek knowledge from those few farmers, those REAL farmers.

Disproportionate wealth has always existed in American society, but I don't think that is really part of the question presented in this discussion. Kitchen Gardeners International is a forum for people to come together around idea that we need to rethink our basic food system. It is a place for us to share our thoughts and offer our experience to one another. While we may all have differences of opinions on a wide variety of issues, we should refrain from making comments which directly target the views, either perceived or implied, of others.

(and, yes, I've always been the mediator in my family)

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Permalink Reply by sandra anderson on May 18, 2009 at 9:59pm

When I was in 6th grade my parents moved the family to a farm. 5 acres proper, with pasture access to about 25 more.
They were struggling financially due to a business partnership that went bad for my father. They had a goal to be financially free of their bad debt and self sufficient in two years.
The farm was rented and in the 70's cost them about $175 a month in rent and so we became farmers.
We knew nothing and grew everything...rabbits, dairy goats, beef cows, pigs, chicken, geese and a huge veggie garden (about 100' sq). When we took on this challenge, we never thought of not succeeding, although I'm sure my parents carried that worry. We just jumped in and worked. I grew my love of the earth and all things living on that farm. Even now when the family looks back on that time, we all agree, it was the hardest we ever worked, but the most fun and rewarding experience of our lives. I guess it must be the Danish ancestor farmer in me, the ones who came west and lived in sod houses on the prairie. Old photos of them show sunburnt necks, muscular arms and legs, huge piles of work and laughing shining faces. (the patriarch of the family still gets up every morning and goes to work-he's 97, his wife at 99 is still playing the piano at church and making cookies for the community) Our family motto whether relating to work or strife, is "Well, I guess it's time to hike up our skirts and get to work!" Hard work to me has always been relaxing and "fun" and at the end of the day if I get to feed my family, then that's a bonus. My goal this year is to become more self sufficient. Not only due to financial reasons, but just because it is better to rely on oneself, then someone else.
I do believe that those to whom much has been given, much is expected, so I plant extra for the food bank and teach my child to love everyone and care for those in need, and use what extra I have to help.
Oh, my parents met their goal of being self sufficent in two years. I remember the night that we "burned" the debt papers and they were free. Since that time they have made and lost fortunes, suffered great loss and heartache, but never gave up. Never accepted failure as an option.
My parents were fearless.
I guess I'm off topic, I can't think about how I feel about gardening without having these memories and things pop up....

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Permalink Reply by Joy Williams on May 19, 2009 at 5:23am

Good for you on planting extra for the food banks. I think I will have a lot of extra myself this year so will do the same. After my family and our community.

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Permalink Reply by chris w on May 19, 2009 at 12:51am

Interesting stories. I appreciate each response, and I had another thought.... while I notice that the comments did not mention food stamps and government commodities, those options do set us (in the US) apart from countries that are less wealthy. I have lived in a variety of circumstances myself and have spent a variety of time in other countries. I have noticed that being poor in America is not the same as being poor in a less wealthy country. We have energy assistance available to those who want it, and food stamps, and a variety of other types of financial assistance (like Social Security, disability, etc). I would not want this assistance changed, but I have wondered if all that assistance is a factor in why some people don't garden.

Where I live people are typically on food stamps (if they are lower income), and the aid organizations give out free food baskets. The food baskets tend to be full of canned items, day old pastries and breads, and surplus frozen, processed food. All in all, it tends to be lower in nutritional value than what someone can either buy fresh or grow themselves. I live in a particularly economically depressed area, and not very many people garden. I find myself wondering if all that 'free food' is one factor for the loss of gardening. Before the food stamps, etc. most people gardened to stretch their budget. I am not advocating for the removal of all this 'free food' but wondering what would happen if they also handed out seed packets. Some people I know can't afford seeds but there is no program to help them purchase seeds if they want to garden.

I went to the store today and purchased new cucumber starts and some replacement tomato varieties, again grateful that I have that option. As I was picking out the tomatoes as always amazed that more people don't garden, a young pregnant mom with a toddler came up asking what type of tomato to plant because this was her first garden. Cool.

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Permalink Reply by sandra anderson on May 19, 2009 at 1:02am

I hope that this is the outcome of KGI...with the million garden thing that they are doing.
It goes back to that saying...give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime.

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